Henry Crissman and Hamilton Poe first met while Hamilton was working at a lumberyard in Detroit, MI. Henry gave Hamilton his business card and rolled off as Hamilton continued to stack lumber. Following this meeting it was repeatedly suggested to Hamilton that he should get in contact with Henry to collaborate on a project, and when Hamilton did finally dial Henry’s number, they were both surprised to find that their phones did not ring. They had both called each other at the exact same moment for the exact same reason, and in that moment their serendipitous collaboration was born.

Through our collaborations we navigate the nuances of an artworld that we operate both inside of and around, utilizing our friendship, communication and phones as our primary mediums. As a collaboration we define our practice as an exercise in articulation and consensus based decision making. Much of our work confronts notions of success and meaning, as the gestures and conceptual challenges encountered through our improvisation subverts traditional economies and intentions. Operating between desires to exist in the moment and to contextualize the moment as it unfolds, we conduct our exploration of aesthetic spaces as a way to justify our play as work.


Henry James Haver Crissman (b. 1990 Midland, MI) resides in Hamtramck, MI, and Hamilton Poe (b. 1986 Raleigh, NC) in Chicago, IL. Hamilton earned his BA in Chinese and Visual Art at Bennington College in 2010, and is currently pursuing his MFA in Art Theory and Practice at Northwestern University expecting to graduate in 2019. Henry earned a BFA in Craft from the College for Creative Studies in 2012 and his MFA in Ceramics at the New York State College of Ceramics at Alfred University in 2015. The two began collaborating together in 2013 following a series of extraordinary coincidences that could not be ignored. They are represented by Trinosophes in Detroit, MI and have exhibited both nationally and internationally.


HC - Ham, I'm not sure where to start. I was going to type something like "This website is an artwork and archive of artworks by collaborative duo Henry James Haver Crissman and Hamilton Poe" at the top, but it seems lame, way too straightforward, and not yet true as this website isn't yet an artwork... Maybe it is? Look at all this weird stuff we've done together... Maybe you articulate some of the things we discussed today on the phone about this website? Maybe not? I did my best to upload things I thought were neat, and now I'm not feeling so hot, so I'm heading to bed. Oh, also, as you can see the page is now in three columns... not sure what to make of it, but it complicates it in a nice way... MAYBE WE MAKE A 'MAKING THIS WEBSITE VIDEO' AS A SCREEN CAPTURE OF US MAKING THE SITE OVER GOOGLE HANGOUTS? MAYBE THE WEBSITE IS JUST AN IPHONE VIDEO TOUR OF THIS WEBSITE AFTER WE MAKE IT SO WE DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR IT??? P.S. Yes, you're right, paper sledding grass drawings was so rad. Do you have the video? I have a scar. Do you have the Self-Titled blog archive? Also we need to talk about Going International. I watched it and I think it's good? I posted part 1 of 6 tonight and will upload the rest tomorrow. <3 data-preserve-html-node="true" data-preserve-html-node="true" data-preserve-html-node="true" data-preserve-html-node="true" data-preserve-html-node="true" data-preserve-html-node="true" data-preserve-html-node="true"

HP - Still trying to figure out how to navigate this. Wishing I could figure how to make this synopsis of podcasts could be single spaced, wishing these images below werent so big. Is there a way to click on an image and make it large? And then part of me starts to think, maybe we should go back through and erase all of the parts where I talk about learning how to navigate a website. But that brings up the main issue of us working together, which is 'How do we make art and present it to others when the act of presention or editing often takes away from the honesty of the work?' In the end, we are left to include a large amount of information with the interest to have every part of it potentially convey some essential quality, and in that way, every moment holds the potential for possibility. We aren't necessarily looking for anything as opposed to trying to keep to the tenant of seeing what happens when. I really like this project where we come across a strange grassy mound after a rainstorm and attempt to make art from it by sliding down its wet slope:

HC - If you go into edit mode and double click on this box with the little glove hand, it opens up in the funny way and you can type in it. BUT the way you're seeing it now in edit mode and in that 'markdown' box is not how you're going to see it if you were to actually view it on the web. In order to view the site as the lamen will, you have to copy the url when viewing the site in 'full screen' and then paste it into an 'incognito' tab, so it doesnt have the cookies to open it back up in the editer. Each of the headers for our writing / episode notes / w/e are now dropdown tabs. It's like a dogdamn filing cabnet - an essential tool for any archive! Thinking more and well labeled fileing will benifit us greatly someday...

As you make changes and you want to see how the site will look, just refresh your incognito tab.

Making waves. Havent figgured out / havent tried to figgure out how to make images big yet. Thinking that's probs easy or ppl just zoom in. For now, I go scribe things for eternity onto ceramic objects... <3 data-preserve-html-node="true" data-preserve-html-node="true" data-preserve-html-node="true" data-preserve-html-node="true" data-preserve-html-node="true" data-preserve-html-node="true" data-preserve-html-node="true"

HP - Can this website be another artwork, or is this just a display of former works? Would this dialog constitute an artwork, or a better artwork? At what point does a dialog interfere with simply taking the world in, experiencing something through the senses? At what point does thinking polute the act of experiencing sensation? What does sensation matter when you're staring at a glowing screen?

HC - I'm not sure that anything matters, but I love being your friend, Ham. The game we play of thinking about art, is the art. Showing the art in formal spaces allows us to justify and deepen our play in times where we might otherwise feel the need to work, or just be overwhelmed by the absurdity of it all. This website is absurd. There is both emotion and logic in this website, but anyone who comes across anything will experience it differently, and most poeple will never see this at all. Dialog is just another point of access, it can be clear and leaner, broken and notated (as with your notes on the 954 podcast episodes), metaphorical, aligorical, there are no actual limits, only labels for things so we can tell others about them. The writing is an artwork, this website is an artwork, it is an archive of artworks, our friendship is an artwork, and people might think its great, and people might disagree, and people might not ever know about it, and people might keep it for a while in safe place, and it might rot and all fall apart, and people might forget, and die, and then there wont be people anymore, and that's why we need to focus on deepspace broadcasting and rocket sending our ideas into space so they be recorded on matter for the rest of time... That's my issue with the website, its an archive that can diapear in an instance. The simultanious permanence of matter and constant entropee of it all seems crutial to outlining this paradox, this crux, that we keep trying to express. I think the shape of our overlap is always a tripple vendiagram regardless of weather or not there is an obvious third party, becasue the limits of phisical space always at play - our bodys, the place, the venue, this website - This place is such a horid space for honestest representation becasue it is a two dimentional rectangle. Nothing is a two dimentional rectangel in a three dimentional universe, and thus we are both facinated by its beauty and appaled by our inability to make it feel true. I dont know how to write anything more true then my admission that I just dont know how. And maybe that is knowing how. Maybe the best art does come purly out of just feeling, but in contextualizing that feeling and justifying it through a series of past things and logic about its value it is envevitably made cold to the touch, becasue it seems impossible that the emotion could be both explained clearly and comming from that place that we all know and feel, but struggle to express and share...

This Markdown box doesnt have spell check or grammer assistance, so please parden my dislexic inability to spell and whatnot...

It was so great to have you and Rachael sleep in our terribly dirty house as you are moving, and as we are moving and trying to make our new house a place where we can move. In that time I think all we managed to comunicate was a whole bunch of hugs and that we missed eachother a lot. I thought that wasnt enought, and then I thought that was great. I'm looking forward to making a video tour of this website as an introduction and expample of our work, and just because it would be a nice thing to do. Like audiobooks. When would you like to make that video? I am free most anytime as I really only work a real job on Tuesdays at the moment...

Also, I am looking forward to painting on Sundays.

Also, update your Bio and CV so we can send this shirt to the New Museum. CV shirts? ;)

I hope things are off to a great start in Chicago. I'm so excited for you to have the experience of graduate school. Too cool.

Please, call me 989 600 2467

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Going International is a video/performance made with the intial premise that, in order to be more noteworthy artists, we must show work internationally. With this in mind, Henry and Hamilton enacted a performance performance where they drove from Hamilton’s studio in Detroit, Michigan, to Windsor, Ontario, one night in February of 2017 in order to drink a beer at a Canadian bar. As we proceeded across the U.S./Canadian border, we explained our project of attempting to become international artists by performing the act of having a beer at a bar in Canada to the border-patrol officers and were swiftly detained and searched. The project brought about questions of what it means to be a U.S. citizen at a time when border relations are becoming more precarious and cumbersome and of arts relevance or irrelevance amidst growing nationalism.


HC - Please forgive us for we have been far too busy (working) to define this series in concrete terms. But if I were to take a stab at it, I'd say it is about working together to reveal 'The Joy of Art Making' which is often lost in formal presentations.


+ ((954)785 - 8492.5

https://hyperallergic.com/284436/florida-bob-ross-and-a-collaborative-conceptual-art-journey/ -



explanation of show

talking in arms

then talking about the show itself and what will take place

listen to the recording of the first episode


seems so linked to this idea of art and entertainment or art as entertainment and the various issues that arise from that.

henry mentions the number is the same as the last 4 digits of his brothers

the question of why humans look for these patterns in things

stating the necessity for inclusion in the project

relationship of the work to jazz music

the process is the piece

it becomes a way to commodify it and allow people to buy further into it, to serve as a souvenir which is a reminder of the experience in it of itself

to feel that failure is an integral part of success

of having the piece be left open as a finished piece

how to genuinely express the experience of living

listening to music

calling jessica green

amazon women


talking about conservative businessman

bringing up becoming an actuary

also of a rigged system (thoughts of masking over this)

talking about whether or not a neurological disposition is connected to a certain economic structure

talks of a system that is flawed and the thoughts of changing it

as it relates to art

what does it mean to make art which is privileged amid societal upheaval

talking about emts not being smart enough to do another job, about whether or not they are to blame for being in a bad job.

working in a system that disguises power dynamics, doesn’t seem right to remain disguised about why these things happen, who gets a show where. as if its all based around pure merit of the artist.

’to really understand it is entirely situational in each space, so its merit in relationship to what, the typical situation is people thinking its merit in relationship to art history,’ its silly and unrealistic to do this because its not tied to this moment. demands that your work exist not in this moment but instead to a past time. talking about spaces and non-exclusive spaces

its problematic 59:00

the white cube set up to show works in a completely regulated environment, talking about cube project. system of artificial values

artificial is something that is not the real thing

its not that its artificial, its ascribed

ascribed suggests that value is arbitrary, but given to it by someone for some reason, believed to be something by some group for some reason

but ascribed has a sense that it is of this worth

a specific history that leads up to that time, that gives it that worth

doing an appraisal

the value of ours is something that is conceptual, sure we could have an artifact

but the alley that we are in isn’t determined by a monetary space,

I love someone buying the memory of this experience from us

an eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, where you buy the memory from the artist and it is removed from their head, can we do that?

people purchase work as patrons as a way to live through the artist

lets not dig into that at the moment

an unresolvable situation

at first I thought that art was based on merit

winning the ovarian lottery

henry feels he won the lottery by not knowing what he was getting into initially

sense of optimism found in the value of the pursuit

thought initially it was purely a formal theory

thought that through school I would find a market for what I make

schooling taught me to find a market that was more interested in various concepts of value, moving beyond ceramics

interesting to think that there are different markets

henry didn’t mean to say any market was better than another

ham- sickened by art market or daily activities, realizing young white males are dominating a society

henry 0 what do you do to make it better

just so happens that my pursuit is filled with people who look like me

when I think of fixing a system, its not necessarily from the top down

not going to

aspire to make things for all peoples

don’t blame myself now for the position I am in

a position given through yesterday, but changing for the future


Accidently Deleted The Beginning of Episode Two Notes


of becoming a college professor and the likelihood of such things, precarious

a system that is a complete unknown

a non linear show

45-47 - good excerpt


54 the myth of the successful contemporary artist who is unsurprised by their success, when in fact it is so unextrordinarily unlikely,

stop and get coffee


episode 3 question for grandpa: how do you have 8 kids when you are not religious having children is like basketball : when you got 8 you just play zone its a game to have kids perceived rational, the world is already so fucked up, why not do exactly what you want to do can look at the universe and say that it is entirely meaningless, or gawk at the meaninglessness of your little existence amongst so many people, also something thrilling and extraordinary at amazing odds that come also a religious rational of having more kids for religion wouldn’t need to feel bad about having 8 kids if you thought you were going to do a good job of it not sustainable if everyone had 8 kids, but in one way you must be curious in another you need to recognize its your own life, important to be aware of the space that you occupy, pays of to be rational as well and despite that you have an extraordinary thing, its finite as well and also entirely meaningless, which could be a positive thing, reminds us that in all the ways we make meaning , they are are constructed, and that nothing has meaning, we are ascribing it to it from our own perspective, and adopting ideological systems that are sayingyes or no, helps us fill this moment which is our space.
is that true that the universe has no meaning? 18:27 there is meaning in any given element of the universe, that suggests that there is a value that must be attributed to it. suggested a creator which I don’t we are giving meaning in a context the inevitable meaninglessness when you zoom out far enough you can zoom in and say why there is a good meaning if the country were going through a worse issue, then it would not be okay to do this project not necessarily, it all depends on context the action cannot be understood without looking at it in a larger context in order to understand the value of our own practices it means understanding how it fits into the larger individual practices, and lives as people, not just professions as artists gets back to convo with rebecca contextualize the same action and have equal or greater meaning but initially you have to place it in context with everything else around it, the previous show, our own lives, the gallery history, etc.
the hesitance to say there is a distinct meaning in any object, that this is exactly what it means what is the meaning of what we are doing right now? we haven’t made the work so its still silly to say what the work could potentially mean what drove the work in the first place, what is the context we are considering the meaning or lack of meaning in the universe bringing up jenine antoni eating their way out of the chocolate bathtub addressing what we are doing for our art show but starting out with what we know about the universe not meaningless or meaningful a silly argument what it was in relation to other things or what drove you to do it, but everyone takes away their own meaning, silly because everyone takes the work away in their own context (which is not the artists or curators should we consider the viewer at all in the making of the piece consider the piece and how the viewer receives the piece but not what the viewer gets out of the piece this podcast is directed towards the listener and that influences the way we are recording and communicating this info but it doesn’t mean that we are telling them what they have to get out of this.
agreed, but what is that distinction, that line between ‘considering how the viewer receives the piece, and what they will get out of it’ one could consider how they might approach the object presented, but cannot say for sure what angle it will be taken from in the end. So one can strangle-hold this necessity or keep going and not worry about it.
many different types of art one could be an art that overstates its meaning and that isn’t necessarily bad, that is still profound and interesting and inspiring though there are some works that have an explicit meaning, or the materials carry such things, and others which remain allusive. Jenny Holzer vs. Donald Judd however if you’re able to do it without stating outright without impressing your thoughts onto the viewer, t something that moves them from their own state of being, to be inspired, (which is debatable about what it is to be inspired) then that piece is successful its funny then that we are making a podcast which is to a certain extent to explain the work as a work its actually more about exposing the abstraction of this thing that will be presented which is something very formal, and exposing how it is that we are dealing with finding a rational for abstraction reiterates: Function of the podcast is t to explain the work as a work of art and
to expose the abstraction of a piece which will be very formal,
exposes how we are coping with finding a rational for abstraction 31:47 is it more or less masturbatory in sharing these thoughts? as opposed to just keeping it to ourselves henry: more and less masterbatory talking about moby dick been on dashboard for three years he’s never moved it and anyone that touches it is swatted off the sculpture carries meaning to henry lets say it would be placed in the gallery henry likes the curve, which is the dashboard of the truck, and a symbol of the experience had in the truck how would others encounter the work and move through it henry says, that work is NFS not for sale how would it function, rather than as a byproduct of that adventure that I had with my friend these objects are simply the byproduct of the experience if the book is in the gallery, how would a viewer have an experience with it? henry suggests a space in the middle (the bleachers), pointed where the documentary is projected, but when there is no documentary, then the bleachers can be sat on, and things that can accompany the bleachers, perhaps the copy of moby dick.
I wonder yes bleachers act like a vessel the front of the truck becomes the viewing of the stage.
I don’t think its worth the viewers time henry: this is not an autonomous artwork, this is part of the stage that contextualizes the discreet pieces which are hung on the wall, Im not appropriating moby dick as . . . I think it helps to build the setting but is not necessary in the gallery, but it could be its a strange object that henrys talked to many people about does it become sentimental? yes we could donate it to the collection at trinosophes objects in the last show that had sentimentality, ham argues are not as moving or inspiring for viewers what about bucket of mud? good, something that also produces something interesting henry: cups from mud at alfred were not a discreet work either Ham: I think they are discreet but they were something I formed with henry and feel sentimental about people want to live like the artists and want to take away the works as well.
sentimentality of the object is , the only reasoning why we’d put the objects in place is because we had experiences with them in the past If we slid down canvases on grassy hills, it would contain sentimentality, but also has another fascination to them as well.
we had a good time with this object we are at this place again the topics may have changed but us still working together, of finding our shapes, we are inevitably still working on that space, and the shape is extruded through time explains ‘shapes’ theory.
the shape that we share together is very curious, and it might be nice to figure out what is really different about that 42;45 back to moby dick mud in the gallery is not necessarily very successful for a viewer to come in there its good like that we went out swimming and then hauled 300 lbs of mud to the gallery via bicycle, which is strange and weird, but what brought it full circle is henry making something from it.
this work also falls prey to a certain sense of physical craft It needed to be know, that to know this work, you need to know how it becomes a supplement to our own individual practices.
an example of how henry chewed on what we did and then made something out of it in his own work what ham attempts to do is to make a work that a person doesn’t need to understand their own private practices, but that a person could come to a work and find some inspiration from it on their own. \ Henry: our collaboration is very young, instead of trying to spend as much time together to do this thing, becomes interested when you approach something as a novice we are going to make these paintings, and we are still not good but we will bring a new spin on things because no one else has done this. Still have book in front of us, in order to understand the work in th gallery people need to know where we are coming from in our work Ham: I think that if we consider the work in the gallery enough before it goes up, then it can convey itself or communicate to the viewer and bring some inspiration 47:53 and I argue in this point that putting that sentimental object in the gallery, that unless it is a very particular object beyond its sentimentality, it will not have the ability to communicate.
perhaps it requires cleaning the space in which it is put Henry: something that exists between us, but is not so obvious that our narrative to it would be able to stand in front of the perception of it, which is that someone sees it as a copy of moby dick, and just that. I have not read this book henrys understanding of what the story might be instead of reading it, ham gave it to henry, put it on dashboard and its been there every since. the reason we grabbed it, talking about going to the old coop.
henry thinks narrative will not go ahead of the book as far as face value, but henry still stands for it as an interesting object.
sculpture can have so many meanings henry states idea for constructing mold on beach of a giant moby dick that would then go into the gallery.
ham:a belief that if I spend enough time with the work then it comes right out and inspires, it poofs Henry: Im not ready to make it poof right now Ham, considering it enough, how we would place objects in the gallery is super important, the point being that, if that book just goes into the gallery as is, it could be good but henry: you don’t believe in it yet ham< as is I don’t believe in it Henry: is it worth trying to make all of that time and thought occur verbally on our podcast? do we spend the next five podcasts trying to work that out or do we come across it naturally, as it occurs Ham: I care much less about the podcast and much more for how these objects objects work or a potential meaning.
Hen: how do you think we can get to that, because I don’t know what else to say about it at this point because I haven’t thought about the value of that object as a sculpture yet.
well lets talk about it henry: I don’t know if I can consider it at this moment I don’t know that I can work through it yet, don’t feel like we can just talk about it now until we know that it is good or bad, I don’t know it yet well then lets not talk about it henry: we can talk about it so in the vin diagram henrys includes podcast, hams occasionally includes podcast not a big deal to ham henry: not big or small, just is ham: you assert yourself to do this, spend 8 dollars to publish podcast henry: you said you needed to go to bed. Im not entirely confident about this thing thats why I published it with a disclaimer.
ham to put it on for people can be insidious instead of doing it for yourself henry: I thought it was funny to do there are some times when you laugh at it and other times were you get confused, when do you like it or not, no opinion, you just flipflop 01:02 we talked about potential things that would be in show, talking about it more, I fear that it broke character for the show henry : no, I have no idea what to say about that, I have nothing else to add beside what is in our own narrative, how I know it to exist we’ve been talking about what it could be, but I can’t say any more I know it has this value, I am not sure if it has any more value aside from that is this a point that some artists don’t cross, the possibility of what could be? while others step all over it? Im not sure if it has more value than just being a copy of moby dick all of these people will already know, and then it could be read as saying, we are like this which we are not necessarily like that as I haven’t read the book do you think it is possible that we could overcome what the book seems to be maybe are you interested in making that be the case.
ham: brought it up as an example as a work in a gallery, as an example of sentimentality, and my hesitance to put the same sentimentality into this show sure, agreed wanted it to be in the gallery, or having a role or other agenda as a performer on a podcast, don’t know where to take it, or where it could possibly go. Discussion of making a copy of it, was referencing something very early on, as an example only to prove, believe for a while that it is a significant form for our work.
before the show we sent a list of things, thoughts of a more sculptural show before coming up with this painting show, we sent a list of things back and forth,(something to find for later) and try to draw some connections between them, see what that could have been and I think that sounds cool and to consider it and I would love to consider it more and Im not fighting you on the book, the thing at which you are feeling frustrated about is me implying that talking bout that doesn’t fit into the podcast which is suggesting that I have some idea of what the podcast is which is a 60 minute thing which is the only parameters which is an attempt to share our thought process and make it accessible and something that someone could engage with. right now this is a good material for us to consider what would be in the show but once I start thinking, how is the viewer going to interpret what I am saying now, considering what a viewer might perceive is bad at times but also good, I wonder if when we were talking bout it, it was stunting the show, talking freely. maybe we can talk freely after a 60 minute period, but do you feel this is stunting it I feel 20 minutes ago it was stunting but then we got past it is this not talking freely it seems like we are better now I was never worse, and considering the viewers perceptions be a good or bad thing, is interesting and what is good or bad is an interesting thing to consider. whats the context of the work, and is that something that should have been or something else and that is the set of parameters we can set for which it is evaluated if you don’t want to consider the viewer and think the work is better if we don’t, then lets not, but one of the better things about this is that the viewer is the only one considered in a podcast form, as much as we strive to have some sort of engagement in our last project, we concluded that the result was difficult to enter into, podcast form made to be entered into, how does that form have any possible connection to our practice when the last thing that we did was so seemingly difficult to enter.
but we also had a blog that was easy to enter into. Henry argues that the blog was much more easy for us to enter into than others.
` wouldn’t care about a blog, but if there was some sort of strange podcast you’d tech it out but you also don’t read well true how do you relate what we are doing right now to the blog? never occurred to me that blog was public in the same way.
relating this to the recordings we made last time, a clearer version of that, but being that essentially functions in the same role as the blog to clarify what is going on.
blog archive merger something nice about being able to split the blog and the audio archive expressionist form of what was recorded and then this intellectualization of that and those two things were separate.
recording which attempts to intellectualize about the experience but we did that last time too sure but it was much more varied.
id still argue that we could talk freely and record, and then at the end of the day we record for one hour if we wanted to stage, but we say exactly the conclusions that we’ve come to, but there should be something for a viewer to come to this is getting back to the point of the fault of sentimentality, that there is nothing for the viewer to cling to, nothing for them to find appreciation in, merely there as a show of comradere henry: but isn’t that ascribing meaning, isn’t that like saying this is what it means by giving time to consider how someone moves through it, you are somehow making it more possible to consider what they might take away from it, vs. making freely and not knowing i think its considerate of how someone would enter into things.
but then you are considering the viewer and just wanted to record our own dialog I think that comes later, if I feel an urge to talk about something and its not well rounded, and thinking ‘well is this going be a waste of another persons time’ you can’t waste someones time, they’re choosing to spend their time, you aren’t in control of them though one could argue that you are building a certain amount of credibility for someone to come to your work and see what you are producing in the first place (but for what?) and the goal is not to be good the entire time, its to expose the struggle in finding it, the work is good because it admits the failure then why have 60 minute intervals can’t upload several hours at once because its nice to split it up, ‘why do books have chapters’ (episode title) then why 1:16 but then there’d be no reason to do the beginners bit, to say ‘hey, everyone out there, this is what we’re up to’ the issue here is that ham don’t lub himself. but maybe henry lub himself too much do you really have a prob with that? its a classical bit of the form when I make a cup, Im not necessarily making it to be like any other cup, but there are architectural elements of it which have been developed because they work I can take the foot out or play with itself but Im not any worse for admitting that the foot is a functional element of the form itself. so maybe we can have it but maybe it should be more strange? rebecca mention that our thoughts are rhizomatic, that they splinter out into every direction but if we spend more time together we can create an arch out of all of it but when I consider that other people are listening to this thing . . . . but don’t consider them, when you consider them it ruins it, but at times when you don’t consider them, it is better.
episode 3 condensed when you got eight kids, you’re playing zone how do you rationalize having 8 kids? doing exactly what you want to do vs. being aware of the world around you doing exactly what you want when you zoom out far enough, you realize how insignificant everything is all the more reason to do what you want originates from the thought that the universe is meaningless debating morals and ethics behind the art we make and from that, meaning ‘what is the meaning of what we are doing right now’ the legitimacy or lack thereof when considering a potential meaning for works statement : it is legitimate to consider the piece and the parameters for which the viewer receives the piece but it’s not legitimate to consider what the viewer will take away from the piece we consider the function of the podcast Function of the podcast to explain the work as a work of art and
to expose the abstraction of a piece which will be very formal,
simultaneously exposes how we are coping with finding a rational for abstraction which is ridiculous later . . . to share our thought process make the work accessible make the work as something someone could engage with tenants of our collaboration we consider the copy of moby dick sitting on henry’s dashboard as art legitimately or illegitimately sentimentality and its ills can the piece be worthy of a viewers time? buckets of mud, cup made from them Henry: the necessity for the artist to have fun, to do whatever they feel like doing henry’s shape theory emerges Ham: the attempt to make a work that a person doesn’t need to understand anything behind it in order to find inspiration this is also a contentious point, not always trying to do this, this requires a few elements Henry: ‘we are going to make these paintings, and we are still not good but we will bring a new spin on things because no one else has done this.’
Consider the function of the podcast again Hams concern that performance overpowers sincerity combatting the two concerns: performance vs.
Back to Moby-Dick bickering about the value of the object as sculpture Henry: Im not sure if I can talk about if the object would be good or bad as a sculpture ham interprets this as being off-topic from the performance of the podcast.
reinforces the thought that sentimentality doesn’t transfer to the viewer back to Podcast bickering continues henry: what is good or bad is an interesting thing to consider. Whats the context of the work, and how much of that can we set up or control? that a podcast inherently considers the viewer/listener.
last time audio recordings were an expressionist view of the work the blog itself was an intellectualizing about the work ham: of making the podcast more concise or realized henry: the act of considering this defeats the freedom of it.
ham - the concern that I am wasting another persons time henry - the listener is choosing to listen Henry: the goal is not to be good the entire time, its to expose the struggle in finding it, the work is good because it admits the failure henry : the work is better when you don’t consider the viewer the discrepancy between the podcast being that it is either for the sake of analyzing thought processes or giving a show for others.
is henry hesitant to talk about how viewers might perceive of works because it feels silly, that going that far into how someone would consider a work is bad? so interesting, that because I consider the viewer and the value of that time that they might give, and what that means for the credibility of what I might say, I will hold off in putting myself out there. On the flip-side that means not being open enough to expressing myself and also that I might avoid doing something.
What are the topics from the show, or how did the conversation weave? interesting to consider meaninglessness and the thought of doing what you want as it relates to sharing a thought process, making something someone could engage with, and making it accessible to others. The two don’t go together


Episode 4 memory palace as a form of podcast henry : podcast network enable people to subscribe to our audio recordings as we release them.
ham : what is the extent to which this should function for someone else as opposed to ourselves Henry: the structure allows for a dialog that is consistently unfolding gives an amount of accessibility really for us providing an opportunity for others to be here with us however, don’t know if anyone will ever listen to this important to share, but its not necessarily important for people to be with us, to make it open for others but not necessarily made for them.
in our imagining that we are sharing it with someone, we need to have a clarity of thought and a pace about it. discussing moby dick and its implications - its important to be articulate to a broader group of people, but the bit of effort to be clarifying to abstract people in abstract spaces might not be as good as talking freely Henry if you want to do it do it, if you don’t, then don’t Ham: I like this format. having a format that you feel comfortable to going back and going through also conducive to being in a car for several hours ham: the thought of who determines what is good or what is bad arrived at the day before if the artist says that something is good enough then that should be the most important thing? henry: to understand the value of something or the way it should be evaluated is in relationship from where it came from. The critic is best in saying they think something is good or bad, thats their profession. The critics job is to research it and understand how it exists in a context or several contexts.
an artist can be wrong in believing that something is good, or better than it is, but thats not to say that it isn’t good for them, it just dent imply that it is good on a larger scale. a work might be good but in relation to other things it might not be good,a larger scale the podcast could be our most perfect artwork, or you could claim that its bad you might think its bad because you just didn’t know lets say we present this to the bob ross work shop part of this artwork that doesn’t exist yet but its going to be bigger they might say, I don’t understand and it isn’t art the artist could say” it didn’t reach them and didn’t function that way, or you could take it as an education way and discuss art in its abstract forms, and they could say they still don’t like it or they could take more of an interest in it.
just like value, concepts of good or bad are contextual and even then, ascribed 14:40 differences between us who determines what is good or bad Ham : all of this is bad, I could do better ham stipulates : Im not sure if this is good or bad, I am willing to put this out there Henry : Im not concerned with worthiness, people are worthy of nothing, thats ascribing value thats saying that there is inherent value in anyone the piece is completed in some instances when people participate in that thing and I aspire to make something that is ‘worth their time’ for me to doubt, I don’t think you can spend your time questioning you cannot debate whether or not it is worth their time, because Im not forcing anyone to spend time with this thing, it is all voluntary.
but your voice has a certain weight to it, and asking someone to participate when there is nothing there takes away value from your own voice lets put a disclaimer in front of it, that this is not good, you may find that this is good, and you may not and Im not saying that you should think this is good I’m saying, you may be into this type of thing Im making it for people who want to join in with us, not trying to attempt who those people may be or what they may want just saying, if you’d like to join, we’d love to have you.
what if someone listened to this and sent in some hard questions? rebecca, call in! bleachers the sentimentality of objects - ham doesn’t know how he feels about that well then lets not do it but I could feel good about it well lets talk about something else I don’t think it makes sense, lets talk about the bleachers when we have any idea what will be shown there.
henry mentions song clip: lyric: no one want to hear what you dreamt about, unless you dreamt about them podcast - there is this attempt of how we should address the viewer, weather we should address them or not, and though it is about our adventure, it is also about the viewer who is listening, and it asks them to consider their relation to this strange thing, and so they do want to hear what we dreamt about because we dreamt about them, do you get it get it? I’m zoning out the biggest part of the project is that I haven’t been able to be in the studio, how to keep a steady job while continuing to make art? thing that I was after before the job, are the thoughts of playing with everyday life, seeing what happens when you say, Im going to try out this thing that no body else will do or no one has time to do henry asks: what is the difference between this and the everyday a topic: explaining how we are not on vacation which gets to the topic of the ridiculous virginia accuses henry of not working why not tell your coworkers about what you do coworkers are bullies I can understand what we are doing is work as well, and Im not sure if it wasn’t work that I would be willing to take on so much work to do it, because its not practical at all for me in that way, but Im willing to take the time to commit, it wasn’t work, which comes down to the situationalist. . . . begin bob ross lesson


Episode 5 talking in bed at whats-her-names moms house talking in whispers what if we watched bob ross videos, made paintings, and painted portraits of our cellphone neighbors over-top of the paintings.
what if the premise got crazier and crazier, to continue searching for these people, that it continues to complicate itself.
call out phone number neighbors on the beach, paint bob ross paintings on the beach, but not of the beach asking people to come out to beach and then to play triple ven-diagram when anything could potentially be good work, that there are no mistakes, what should or shouldn’t be there? ‘Im gonna be better than bob’ Thinking - Im the best potter in the whole world giving yourself permission to make the work Showing up to a workshop where there are 35 older individuals all sitting at easels in two long strips painting a painting of the painting, that the teacher was painting, of a painting that he painted, of a replica of bob losses paintings a teacher was painting a painting of his painting of bob losses painting, and all of the 35 students were painting a replica of the teachers painting ala prima process, the entire group was asked to stand around the easel which was to be followed by all of us, and then we made that mark noticing that others already knew certain techniques before the teacher taught them, but that they come every week to master their practice bob tosses performance was the performance of making work, which was about inclusion, and bringing people into the art world, bringing people into his conception of what is beautiful opening conceptuality to qfuncamentally about opening or examining the difficulties and process of opening conceptuality to a larger audience and that the performance of the work becomes the work roses paintings are really just souvenirs which speak to that larger practice, that action 22:22 in it of itself was the real work the performance created the object, but he also set it up in a very particular way, framing, under a pretense of willi-nilliness, very precise very particular about his language in order to choose that audience sometimes works have a trick to it that teases a person into being inspired, sucks them in how did they make that? a curiosity, be it physical or conceptual, that becomes part of what builds curiosity and brings people into the work ‘I wish I could do that’ or a perceived difficulty and someone realizes that it is difficult and helps to cultivate trust between artist and viewer all process is about learning what is the appropriate slight of hand especially in craft, I take a specific interest in learning things where you go, ah! I would not have thought of that, when revealed there is a certain simplicity an practicality to it, and you go , well of course, and then you can adopt this new rule, when a trick is so basic and has so much logic behind it, it can be reappropriated and applied in different ways exciting to be taught the logic that creates the painting, taught us how to fish learning in first year college how to look at the world and copy master drawings about creating a cognitive sense of detail and awareness of such detail, a sensitivity that goes across the board, isn’t necessarily about being able to make that thing exactly, but if you have an interest and an ability to see it, that process of traditional drawing is sitll very much applicable to the contemporary artist the idea of making our own bob ross franchise the idea of taking everyones phone number that we meet and then taking the mean average of them and calling that number does this action of the phone number serve to free up the works? is there a certain point when this is no longer necessary, that the work has been freed? in other words, the rest of it should be cleaning up the work and making it accessible for a viewer? or doing other random work? recounts the night pottery made on premises


(first a synopsis) how to arrive at realized work time and pressure, and a release as well, or rest can this be done without ego or anxiety? editing: are we trying not to edit at all or editing everything all the time We are trying to avoid doing any work that we don’t want to do during this experience Trying to find disconnect for lawyer while describing the project at a certain point we talk about how the work is viewed by many as not being work at all Comparing lawyer talk with talking to students in Kathy’s classroom concerning our urge to talk in a recording/podcast - by understanding that and presenting the effort to understand that, it becomes a process of education for ourselves and others about how to access and consider the opportunities of contemporary art in such a strange system the issue of never quite knowing anyone assumptions are dangerous but necessary meaning : the imaginary phone number represents our necessity to map out a triple vin diagram.
Ross made painting more accessible my making the work quickly and without insane skill Henry: Ross’ work could be both painting or the videos he made (ham disagrees) the skill becomes a way to cultivating trust in the conceptual idea whole text/dialog (leaving new smyrna) talking to old man lawyer at a bar before hopping in the car cruising down beech talking about darwin, how he arrived at his scientific discoveries giving himself the freedom to explore going surfing makes us better people how does it come about, this pressure of creating doesn’t just arise out of happiness, more often an ego feels pressed into doing something that would create something more, there also needs to be some release from the work where you are allowed to open your mind, the freedom to experience new things and ideas from abstract places.
analogy of seagulls pointing into the wind, they are not working, it is not natural to only work in early human civilization. . . they didn’t actually work that much Is the goal of the project not to work? How can we get others to make our art for us? trying to suggest that you can’t just take time and throw it away, and just cut back into them, lulls or when things are not fully explained, you make work through a concept henry: I don’t believe it is not editing, because we have already moved through it and approved it. i.e. we are working we are trying to avoid doing things that we don’t want to do ham: we are trying not to edit at all henry: I don’t believe it is not editing having already moved through it and approved it. this seems like b.s. - ham henry: we are trying to avoid doing any work that we don’t want to do during this experience True, there is the issue of artists being seduced into doing work that they don’t want to do.
we can’t just take time and throw it away there is a feeling of having moved through it and approved it we are always working 6.2 getting tattoos the thought that a shark bite would be a good memento from doing the trip talking about grandpas henrys grandfathers influence talking about having 8 kids henry talking to man at bar, 17:18 henry explains mahi sandwich : 17:50 talking about our backgrounds (to man at the bar for lunch) ‘we explore what our commonalities are in our training outside of the arts explaining what its like to come to some understanding with one another, spending time together, and collecting objects which have some relevance to them last night we stayed with a woman whose mother started an interesting alternative academy, pro athletes ‘his thought was, where did you stay last night you guys are bums he was trying to gain a sense of whether or not we could be trusted or stable economically is this valid enough that you actually have enough money to stay somewhere besides camping on the beach then explain where we stayed, and he thinks it sounds like a terrible school 21:30 explanation of show trying to meet our phone-number neighbors do you mind me saying thats kind of a weird story its more than kinda ya, it might be the weirdest thing I’ve ever done we are working right now this is our artwork 22:50 thats not what I call working well, there are many different conceptions of work (mahi sandwich?-waitress) but essentially, we have had to make this investment of time and money we are hoping to make paintings of the people that we meet this community of people who are related to us in a certain way it is not a real number because it ends in a .5 we decided to drive down here to meet our phone number neighbors.
how to structure a work in knowing that it is ridiculous but following it so closely the last show we did was an abstract sculpture show hamilton had the secret agenda to go surfing -henry thinks that where we lost the bar-eater we go on to lose him, and what we forgot to mention is how that ends up becoming a portrait or survey of a community that is undeniably related to this space that we are trying to outline, what we are trying to outline, that vin diagram overlap of ours, and how that set of people becomes something else. that set of people then become, or or, what we are doing is looking at them in relation to that work, and asking them to help us define that specific corner of that section which is the triple vin diagram, and thats what happens with our interview, who we are are looking to call this afternoon. imagine that each one these people is someone who shares a section in our double vin diagram and their triple vin diagram a strange rational given then to this, Im sure he would think that this is absurd, but it doesn’t really describe logically how or why we would do that ion the lead up he seemed to have an interest though ˆso how to keep this interest, to follow through. the thought that you yourself must have an inspiration to doing this, it was really good until we started joking about work, or a little after that I didn’t think we lost him, he was just done being a part of it maybe hell tell someone he enjoyed it, but maybe he won’t listening to the thing in the classroom where we explain what we are doing to students “we are trying to think about, what is that shape? a really hard thing to define, and so its constantly outlining these compromises but its also about getting people or bringing people into contemporary art because so often wait pause I wa ss saying outlining the shape of our compromises and you say, by understanding that and presenting the effort to understand that, it becomes a process of education for ourselves and others about how to access and consider the opportunities of contemporary art in such a strange system to give context, this is a room with kathy and her five students at the academy.
by we are meeting, or talking to these people you brought up the issue of never quite knowing people enough the idea that you can never actually know someone 1` it further suggests that assumptions are dangerous and 2 assumptions are necessary I think that that goes back to this philosophy, which Im not in disagreement with, but as we talked about meaning in the art world or in art, the thought of looking back and forward, the further out you are in space, the less meaning things have. which means that there are all kinds of chaotic things that happen in this world, and they can be scientifically explained to a degree, but humans are the most illogical beings out there, and though you can understand many things, you can never actually predict what people are going to think, which makes you desire to do a social thing with your art well I think I always try to add in something that I don’t know into the work the most readily available thing is people (rolling though titusville) this median number, you made a jump, don’t think we’ve been saying it all along, this number between ours, the counterpoint between us, the numbers are perfect representations of us in that way it is like the vin diagram presents something which is inherently abstract as a very concrete and not abstract thing, a phone number which represents a point that we are trying to find, or we are trying to outline the third persons vin diagram, interesting classroom- we came up with a new number which is based out of pompano beach florida when all of these things are so abstract, how do you say, yes that is exactly the point between me and you, but I can say that this is my number and I might answer, the phone number is something that is halfway between us, mine is odd and his is even, so it isn’t a real number, but we are going to go to this place and call our phone number neighbors, to try to connect to this very strange community which is undeniably related to us, we are going to buy a burner cell phone so we can call that number from there well, we can call from wherever we want, so one of the pieces will be us calling them from the beach henrys girlfriend always thinks we are not working, but we stayed up all night talking/working last night, we don’t try to have any one medium into our form, but decided to have a traditional painting show, we figured out that bob ross is from here, roses are technically good but they don’t fit into the traditional fine art narrative of painting was gonna have a show and teach people how to paint. so the actual creation of the oil painting would take months, alla prima, making it all in one sitting, painting the background and then move forward using paint that is thinner and thinner.
(us talking about oil painting) what he was concerned with was developing and teaching a method that could occur more quickly, which could make the work more accessible.
‘he brought all of these people into painting. a half our show of bob painting, happy trees, theres no such thing as a mistake, only happy accidents. In a way you could look at the thing that we are doing and see this as being a very conceptual approach to art making, and bobs could be seen as the opposite, or you could see it as almost the exact same thing, working was all about this conclusion, how to bring people into this. he had a studio and would spend a whole year developing the 30 paintings that he was going to paint, and instead of selling those paintings, he recorded a television show over a few days time, his artwork was his video of himself making this painting which was also his artwork.
the last show we had was a gallery which was full of these strange shows, full of objects that had some sentimental value, and this time, its sort of discussing what we could do, we thought it would be funny to do a painting show, a classical art show, a painting show. a major issue with our last show is that it wasn’t something that you would immediately understand as artwork. so you look at Rosses work that is so immediately accessible, so we are trying to make this more accessible. the medium of painting as saying, this is where the art is, we are having a painting show vs. a kind of no, if 49:50 jus being a painting becomes a form to believe that it is an artwork if they are painting that becomes a way to believe that it is an artwork, and because we have acquired these skills, there is a representation of what is difficult about what we are doing, that skill might not actually be difficult the skill becomes a way to cultivating trust in the conceptual idea what does henry mean by this? that because they are paintings, and they are done with skill, the viewer can somehow trust the artist more, that what they are doing is of value? crutches going in to get coffee


calling person on burner phone If we moved to san francisco we might make better art as far as tech saviness 14:30 meaning so beyond the actual list of things that we are doing what are the themes that are consistent among our conduction of that, and how do they relay into a value system that we can use to say whether or not we were successful, not just that we conducted our heartset goals of going somewhere, keep that and remind me of what it is in just a second what is the potential meaning that I perceive, or what made me decide to do this with you 15:10 what is interesting to this beyond just myself, why should someone else be interested in this what is the typical thing to impress yourself onto the viewer to have everyone who walks into the gallery have their heads pop off from what they see 17:00 good artist statement for you art is inherently narcissistic, of having others complement you on what you’ve made which is why it mends well with social media it can compromise the work but can also push it to be something more than it is the goal of making art while having a financially sustainable existence which is the point of the show the big things that I was after, which I am still after, is about playing with everyday life, trying out this thing that no one else will do or no one else has the time to do, the biggest hope is to inspire others enough to go out and do the same things for themselves, or or screw around and play with things in their daily lives how does this translate into marxism, doing things that deny a capitalist mechanism Henry: it also becomes a way of how we are given permission to do this thing which can be validated as being something more than just play what that means is I can understand what we are doing as work as well if it wasn’t work, I wouldn’t be willing to take so much time off of work to do it its really not practical, but because it is work I am willing to take time to go away which brings in the situationalist line between art and life I’ve felt hesitant to draw a line before with this but this wouldn’t be happening if it weren’t for art Its like finding out that theres a way to win weeklong trips, like a secret website/society actually its called art and you just need to figure out a way to convince people that you’re pretty good at it.
you can’t just be a dick your almost immediately a dick for talking about how your not one so maybe I should not discuss this so what does it speak to? for what reasons is it interesting to a larger context beyond our own individual practices what is its meaning to do this today? henry: what are potential ways that it could be conceived as interesting? what made duchamps work interesting? it was breaking down the boundary lines of art and life 27:00 My perspective is to round things down to their most minimal, but their most essential value the crux to the point that it is inspiring, eliminating those crutches to craft that obscure the difficulty of thinking that is there henry talks about craft and how it is the only time that it is perfect because it is the exact thing that it is if you look at it that the journey is the piece, and lets say the paintings are 46:00 artist statement


crossing through pompano - late at night, calling a few digits ahead, calling law office talking about the strangeness or non-strangeness of calling the number calling 1.5 digits up from called 954 785 8494 wanted to use pompano number because we wanted callers to feel more like neighbors ‘its the exact opposite of prank phone calling’ call didn’t go through 8495 ‘we don’t call in, we call out’ - suggested title calling several numbers (going up 8497 talk to toll booth guard who said she met pdiddy and pitbull and they tried to tip 8499 8494 stopped at 25:30 8500 8501 28:15 first contact 30:05 its so hard because it appears as if were making a prank call freak out 37:40 41:20 uncontrollable laughing after conceiving of 40 pictures of bob ross landscapes with the law firm in them devising a beach meet-up considering ed rushca s 12 pictures of egg plants, that theres only 10 (the ridiculous) part 2 just playing a song, nothing there part 3 we try to call rebecca but she doesnt pick up part 4 (this started before part 1, and episode 3 as well) opens by talking through what was said talking about trying to make art like the music I listen to problems within this the only reason built to spill isn’t funny is because they don’t recognize how funny they are talking about what is and isn’t funny ‘henry says, ;I know this is ridiculous, you are going to think this is ridiculous, but . . . Henry: but this is why it is not ridiculous Henry brings up alien analogy: aliens coming to earth and mentioning that humans licll listen to much, and the humor of it being intertwined with our being


9 the voice (there was an episode before this) us walking along southbeach late at night after drinking on the strip reminiscing on the night and sex workers talking about ways of getting more podcast listeners and likes -guerrilla advertising scheme -ham mentions religion - supecokermart.
trying to explain, fails debate talking about political persuasions debate forms, being on beach when making whole painting, concerning the whole parameters of painting, at least 27 minutes Episode 9 part 2 (talking to the voice) opens with henry talking to Mark New York mark gives big opening the voice asks ‘what do you want’ around 9:00 minutes henry mentions shapes and trying to know what we want by trying to understand each other we’re recording the act of figuring that out because, its a perfect failure, I can never know him, I can never really get in there, and so at some point its all about exposing that you just need to trust someone and also that you can’t ever know what their thinking, you just need to move henry relates whats weird though, is to continue to explore or see how it evolves, some artists think that their work is never good enough and some artists that think that its just fine henry - the work is just fine you can’t do anything better than you’ve done it, how could you whereas if you spend your time picking out what exactly your going to say or do, you shoot yourself in the foot we continue to make, hour after hour, and its hard work, and thats what people don’t realize, we are not on vacation, we are working hard talking with Mark New York!

  • the voice goes to the bathroom - recounting talking to the ‘woman of the night’ debating about how we are going to reach people talking to kristin from toronto who has a degree with a degree in criminology debating criminality the thought that people are criminals for rational reasons ham- but humans are inherently irrational ‘its your podcast, you go for it’ - kristin’s title explaining point of the podcast/trip the podcast is a piece of the show, the artworks become a sort of souvenir of the experience the artwork, where the work of the podcast is to explain itself as an artwork it sort of exists in multiple ways operating here by speaking to one another and also speaking with people who are listening to it maybe far deeper into the future is it live? no, but its live with the present and the future there are all sorts of ways we are existing here at this moment a piece of our quest is this question of ‘how do you genuinely share the experience of living when the act of sharing becomes an act’ thus it has the element of the disingenuous so essentially we have come here contact this group of people who are basically these abstract people that we might or might not have been able to get in contact with, but undeniably related to us in this strange way and in discussing it with them or you it becomes this act of inviting people into this way of thinking about really doing anything as a sort of aesthetic gesture making it in the same way you would make a painting painting this moment in this moment what are you hoping to find?: the thing we were hoping to find is not really anything at all, henry: we are just looking great question we are hoping to have meaningful experiences h: we have no believe that this will work out as we have planned it as we see it none of this will likely occur as expected henry: well, no, but , if we don’t get ahold of these people then it isn’t bad, ok lets say we drive all the way down here, and no one answers the phone, that doesn’t make the artwork any worse Hamilton: it almost makes it better henry says no, because it is neither good nor bad because the experience is being understood as an artwork, there is no way to judge if it would have been better or worse, because its all happening in one single moment Hamilton: this is following henrys thinking is that the craft is done as is, perfect vs. perfecting it continually Henry: which is something we are doing as well, which is why we keep bringing people into this Toronto: what do you guys paint? well we’ve never painted before no, we painted yesterday, we’ve painted, plenty, like, all of yesterday establishing forms? so one of the things we’ve been sort of saying is every individual you encounter, you have a shape that overlaps, there he goes again about the shapes, so our collaboration is going through this process to find the boundaries of what that shape is, all of this becomes part of the issue of never being able to fully know someone basically any time we bring a third person into this, we make another ven diagram and making a smaller corner of it.
    40:00 everytime you meet some one you have some sort of shared identity about space.
    trying to find a shared identity of a thing, and trying to discover what those boundaries are, trying to get to know someone, which is very hard to do and we don’t completely understand the thought that you can never know the world through someone else’s eyes any time we bring another person into it, it becomes a triple vinn diagram, (becomes a way of understanding the world more) toronto: what do you expect to find? so one question’ what is the meaning of this?’ look at this in relationship to what others have done and speculate about what its value is based on what others are doing currently.
    we can consider this in relation to what other people have already done.
    how can we understand this in the relationship to what others are doing in south beach already or how it occurs in art history what is your hypothesis? my hypothesis is that the meaning of this thing is going to be generated by the individual who experienceseither you, experiencing this in the moment, or us, or someone listening to this in the future, is going be able to pull their own value in how it exists in relation to them, to have, they;kk be able to pull their own value in relation to how it exists with this, or experiencing this in their own way , in relation to themits not that there is a specific meaning to this, and it may have a specific meaning to me at a given moment, is that our hypothesis or our goal? our hypothesis (henry is this for school or is this your own endeavor? we are working and not on vacation, . . . . I am taking my vacation time from work henry- no, we are working - What do I expect we will find? kristin : what do you want to find? hamilton: groovy shit Henry: a greater understanding of myself in relation to this .. . . K:is there a point to this? no, there is no point to myself there is an absurd structure that we set up, that we arecarrying through with and as we do that we are attempting to discern the work as it unfolds in front of us. how old are you ?. . . . (conversation changes) henry talks briefly about how he came to pottery, of wanting to create democratic multiples, but finding that instead he is making luxury goods henry calls scott hocking, (stopping transcribing at 56.51) being by small fires and listening to tlc, wondering what happened to the voice killing time include panoramic image, said we were going to use that as the thumbnail 10 ‘mostly’ listening to bob marley, about to head out of south beach, forgot charger, headed back to hostel listening to music laurel halo camper van beethoven - lulu land 14:22 considering forms blanche blanche blanche then play back through ‘the voice’ intro talks about ‘how you livin’ mike flemming the premise is about getting to know your neighbor and neighborhood henry says, this podcast and project is essentially about learning about another neighborhood we ran out of neighborhoods to know, and so we are figuring out this neighborhood, its about being a good neighbor friends mention ‘aren’t you scared something is going to go wrong, someone is going to do something bad to you’ anyone bad would be turned off from the situation going through pompano, looking at trees going through pompano listening to U.S. A is a monster 51:00 ten hours of publicized podcasts, we have been editing hard day and night, even when we go out to play, we we need to take the total number of hours of the trip, multiply that by 30 dollars per hour, and then divide each painting by that. take that number divide it by the number of our paintings.
    that is reasonable right? getting into pricing the works: 30 dollars an hour each x but what if we can’t get anything to any of our friends because they are too expensive? give it away, but sell first excited, on the beach, going to set up ask french people near the pier where to buy beer, make friends briefly, pa du problem = no problem panting on the beach, wind blowing talking about paints, and high school teacher saying, you guys better be careful cuz one day you’ll have to pay for these things, but if you know the right person,you can get them for free




11 Richard Crissman painting on beach, goes through demonstration maybe look over


Calling Rebecca Mazzei begin by saying this is episode 13 realizing there are many things we need to do, to call our neighbors, calling lawyer calling dolores, reaching a guy at the phone hotline, we leave the number for her.
we call the number, and no one picks up.

+ EPISODE 12.5

12.5 talking in bbq restaurant explaining to waitress begin to talk about tattoo still explain work to waitress waitress from michigan tells story of moving to pompano debating to going to the spa presidents project politics waiting for bill henry talks on phone tattoo plans piece in the show of xeroxed butts go get beer


13 deep conversation in driving back to miami day spa henry’s extrovertedness, hamilton introvertedness, discussing projects deep conversation, pinning henry on saying how justified they are in their own work, self masturbatory, several conclusions, postponing calling rebecca quite a bit discussing working ems, working as professor, discuss money inside of art, as the central motivator call rebecca after getting booz talking about releasing podcast to public about grad school what was seen as a failure and what wasn’t a failure, too many projects to complete something well compromises defining our shape diffusing moods or lack thereof singing friend of the beaver porche carrera parking in parking deck, bye bye bye


driving back to pompano after night of skateboarding and spa calling cell phone neighbors on way old person pickup 32:00 sprinkler company non sensical explanations being on beach painting dude wanders from friends wedding anniversary party, mentions hot chicks, lack of pretense in our paintings, how they develop






last of the beach


8:00 explanation of project: failure henry falling butt tattoo parlor that our next show should be about our individual numbers and combining them together


riddlee this, googoo plex talking to rebecca mazzei 1:00:00 henry explains about meaning leading to so much bullshit chatline with bridget how do you make art when so much fucked up shit is going on 1:05:00 1:14 play has originality ends abruptly, no pod 20




metallic jam-out arriving at jim and mary’s

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